Hoplites of the Macedonian era had very long spears, which were good in a phalanx, but unwieldy in close combat. Publisher: Routledge. The Century (onehundred man company) was the last refinement of the Legion. ._1PeZajQI0Wm8P3B45yshR{fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._1PeZajQI0Wm8P3B45yshR._3axV0unm-cpsxoKWYwKh2x{fill:#ea0027} At some times, there were distinct weapons, some … really heavy based of operations; sort of mobile forts, which could serve The legions would be composed into two consular armies, one for each consul. At Cynoscephalae, for example, the Roman victory was primarily a result of the tenacity of the Greek allies on the Roman right, who held their line against the Macedonian charge that scattered the Roman left, and therefore allowed the legionaries to rally behind them and make their outflanking maneuvre to the right. The Good – Legion vs Phalanx is highly readable. Roman legion vs Macedonian phalanx (Macedonian wars)Battle of Pydna 168 BC and battle of Cynoscephalae 197 BC Support new videos from Epimetheus on Patreon! IIRC, the Macedonians used their massed pike infantry formation on the Romans at the battle of Pidna in 168 BC. In Legion versus Phalanx Cole weighs the two fighting forces against each other. "At least in the earlier period, the throwing spears were also useful, on occasion, as spears. When the phalanx got disrupted or broken up, the individual soldiers had to fight one- on - one. However, their back and sides were completely exposed. Sigler researched Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek, and Roman societies and used Myke Cole’s Legion vs. Phalanx heavily as reference material. The phalanx (Ancient Greek: φάλαγξ, Modern Greek: φάλαγγα, phālanga; plural phalanxes or phalanges; Ancient and Modern Greek: φάλαγγες, phālanges) is a rectangular mass military formation, usually composed entirely of heavy infantry armed with spears, pikes, sarissas, or similar weapons.The term is particularly (and originally) used to describe the use of this formation in Ancient Greek warfare, … As long as the phalanx can't be flanked and the Greeks would have archers on the walls I would imagine it would be very hard to get in the city, since the Romans couldn't use their flexibility. About 180 scenarios have been published so far, so you can trace the evolution of the Phalanx thru the Hoplites thru the battles of Philip, thru Alexander and the Diodochi, then the same with the roman manipular legion fighting Pyrrhus and Hannibal and the later Phalanx gone to pot, and various Barbarians, thru its Marian reforms to its time with Caesar and later (belisarius and the Mongols). it appears some standard tactics were, light legionaries would harrass the phalanx, while archers rained arrows into the tightly packed group, and then as the hammer strike as a wedge formation after the phalanx was broken up a bit. Phalanxes were composed of heavy spearmen; in the later days, pikemen. the lance points and Rome conquered the Greek world". worse. Also the Gladia style sword replaced the previous models and sword training was emphasised. "At least in the earlier period, the throwing spears were also useful, on occasion, as spears. The Macedonian phalanx took the concept of cohesive group warfare to another level with the sarissa armed phalangites and under Philip and Alexander, steamrolled every opponent in front of them. According to Polybius, the nominal legion strength in the third century BC was 4,200. On a march in unsafe territory, a consular army would clear land to encamp late in the day. A phalanx of 500 will cover a shorter frontage then a cohort of the same size. When the phalanx got disrupted or broken up, the individual soldiers had to fight one- on - one. They were able to abuse the weaknesses of the phalanx in broken or hilly ground to get past the spears, which only pointed forward. Maniple (Latin: manipulus, lit. It was a sort of game show wherein a team of non-experts tried to re-fight a historical battle, and two historians provided commentary on how the battles were fought. 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svg.LTiNLdCS1ZPRx9wBlY2rD{fill:inherit;padding-right:8px}._2DVpJZAGplELzFy4mB0epQ ._18e78ihYD3tNypPhtYISq3{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:18px;color:inherit} So in battle, the phalanx would draw up in a line while the Romans had a [Checkerboard formation] (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dtW2ng44agY/Sbv_BOWXqUI/AAAAAAAAAbk/L2zFP1E0Hhg/s400/roman+formation2.bmp) When fighting in uneven terrain, the big cohesive phalanx would tend to break up and the hoplites would lose most of their effectiveness. They talk a lot about clashes of different army types like this. Then the gladiuses would go to work. The Macedonian versions benefited from being The Century was both usefull for additional battlefield flexibility, and for policing bandits, pirates, or counter insurrgency. This was a refinement of how phalanx commanders sometimes used their light auxillarys on the flanks. That is, by organizations which did not train full time. Legionaries carried throwing spears. You could use more ranks at once, but trying to use individual lance points as anything but point-forward had to be impossible. To start the game, I’d like to throw in a battle fought during the first Punic War, the battle of Tunis saw a Spartan Officer called Xanthippus throw a line of elephants, supported by the old phalanx of “doru” wielding Carthaginian levies at the Roman legions and with cavalry superiority on the … When a phalanx hit rugged ground, it disintegrated. At contact, the Gaullic warriors would make a violent downward cut with their long cutting swords onto the top edges of the Roman shields. The entire strength of the phalanx resides solely on its ability to deal with the enemies in a front facing attack. This was a much more maneuverable unit than the huge phalanx that mainly operated at the anvil against which the hammer of Hellenistic heavy cavalry could crash (note- the phalanx of c.200 BC is the post-Alexander phalanx, not the one you see in the Persian Wars, or the Peloponnesian War). They were very heavy shock formations, but they were never very manueverable. Let's say the Romans breached the city gate(s) and/or penetrated some of the walls. here's the link: Typical Greek armies always had light infantry attached. Either break up the phalanx or flank to get behind them. Some are always more sucessfull than others in this. The velites carried something called targets on their arms and javalins (pila). This resulted in less emphasis on Alexander's strategy of flexibility and discipline and more on sheer weight in a direct frontal engagement, which meant that the Romans would butcher them every time. Is this an accurate way as well?It seems effective to keep their spears busy while someone else breaks them.Vs phalanx._3bX7W3J0lU78fp7cayvNxx{max-width:208px;text-align:center} ISBN: 9781351273626. The Romans switched to the maniple system, which deployed smaller units in a checkerboard and was called a "phalanx with joints." "some contemporary descriptions of legions in The battles selected are interesting and highlights each formation’s weaknesses and strengths. The Phalanx that Philip and Alexander relied on was very different from the ones the Romans fought at Pydna and Cynoscephalae. That greatly increased the ground on which military operations could be conducted. Web. Despite the war - … a medium length pilum had a chance to do damage. ._2cHgYGbfV9EZMSThqLt2tx{margin-bottom:16px;border-radius:4px}._3Q7WCNdCi77r0_CKPoDSFY{width:75%;height:24px}._2wgLWvNKnhoJX3DUVT_3F-,._3Q7WCNdCi77r0_CKPoDSFY{background:var(--newCommunityTheme-field);background-size:200%;margin-bottom:16px;border-radius:4px}._2wgLWvNKnhoJX3DUVT_3F-{width:100%;height:46px} In times of emergency, the consular armies would be double strength each being 40,000. Screening forces of cavalry and archers always needed to be dealt with first when fighting an army with phalanxes, and these needed to be dealt with pretty quickly. Auxillarys covering the flanks of the phalanx are one example. .ehsOqYO6dxn_Pf9Dzwu37{margin-top:0;overflow:visible}._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu{height:24px}._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu.uMPgOFYlCc5uvpa2Lbteu{border-radius:2px}._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu.uMPgOFYlCc5uvpa2Lbteu:focus,._2pFdCpgBihIaYh9DSMWBIu.uMPgOFYlCc5uvpa2Lbteu:hover{background-color:var(--newRedditTheme-navIconFaded10);outline:none}._38GxRFSqSC-Z2VLi5Xzkjy{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._2DO72U0b_6CUw3msKGrnnT{border-top:none;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText);cursor:pointer;padding:8px 16px 8px 8px;text-transform:none}._2DO72U0b_6CUw3msKGrnnT:hover{background-color:#0079d3;border:none;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-body);fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-body)} Phalanx vs. Legion (/r/history x-post) youtu.be/Icdm7-... 9 comments. � 1998 - Definitely the Great Battles of History! 12 feet and more. And, unlike a phalanx, a legion had considerable ability to turn while maintaining it's unit cohesion. The spears would point forward. Out and back, a style suited for Recommended By. I think one other advantage of the Spanish short sword the Romans used was lateral stiffness. The Romans at one time had used standards that had a handful of straw tied to the top where the eagle was later. At Pydna, as well, it was a force of Greek allies who held the center against the Macedonian advance, preventing the Macedonians from breaking through and allowing the Romans to divert troops to the flanks. Then the Romans would close in before the enemy ranks could pull the javlins from their shields. The formation of the same name started as the group that guided on that standard. Initially adopting a hoplite style phalanx due to influence from Southern Italian Hellenic colonies, … javelins, some heavier. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. have been very manueverable. Carl S RE:Phalanx vs Roman cohort- carl 4/19/2006 8:36:40 AM "some contemporary descriptions of legions in action spoke of them as giant stabbing machines." Phalanx vs Legion : Battle of Cynoscephalae July 2020 The roman victory in the battle of Cynoscephalae ( 197 BC ) marked the end of the second macedonian war between Rome and Philip V, king of Macedon. Certain areas appeared to specialize in certain weapons. More soldiers would then squeeze past and do it again until they were close enough for the gladius. Macedonian guard phalanx surges ahead. Remove Ads Advertisement . Publication. had their stand off javelins, so they could begin the engagment with a heavy barrage outside the range of the phalanx's spears. Is there a book where I could read up on the use and effectiveness of ancient weapons? Would they ever use their pila to break open a hole in the phalanx and attack there? When I say a phalanx is difficult to command, I mean the entire army from the perspective of a general. wealthy or aristocratic background in ancient times. A makedonian army can be amazing in the hands of a good commander, but if you need to be much more intuitive than with a roman army. Two of the qualities that he brings … In addition there could be auxillia. And, they never had any great numbers of horse archers, so they The Cohortal Legion developed only a century or two after the appearance of the Maniple. This did not necessarily mean numerical superiority, just a superior number of tactical groups of soldiers that could be repositioned on the fly, to exploit the breaks in formation that would inevitably occur from phalanxes constantly re-orienting to face a more agile enemy. best top new controversial old q&a. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_infantry_tactics#Other_anti-phalanx_tactics. Numerous educational institutions recommend us, including Oxford University and Michigan State University and University of Missouri. IIRC, some contemporary descriptions of legions in Page: 248. As to the question of legion vs. phalanx: a legion with the manipular system would be very difficult to defeat a phalanx, assuming even terrain, but his is assuming that the standard manipular doctrine is played out: first wave, then second wave, in head on fight. save hide report. The Roman soldiers at first were forced backwards but they rapidly improvised by retreating to uneven ground and organized successful counter attacks into the gaps in the Macedonian formation caused by the unevenness. Each legion had 300 cavalry. It was standard. There also were the velites which may have been called a maniple also. The area we now think of as "Greece" was exceptionally poor land, and horses They tended, all things equal, to carry somewhat lighter armor. Each consular army had two legio of soldiers of Roman citizenship status and an equal number of soldiers of Latin ally status. The rugged terrain of Samnium where the war was fought highlighted the lack of manoeuvrability inherent in the phalanx formation which the Romans had inherited from the Etruscans.The main battle troops of the Etruscans and Latins of this period comprised Greek-style hoplite phalanxes, inherited from the original Greek military unit, the phalanx. The two front ranks spelled each other during a battle as required. It was also the name of the military insignia carried by such unit.. Maniple members, seen as each other's brothers in arms, were called commanipulares (singular, commanipularis), but without the domestic closeness of the eight-man contubernium.. In the accounts i have read it seems to end in a draw. ._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ{border-top:1px solid var(--newRedditTheme-line);margin-top:16px;padding-top:16px}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN{margin:0;padding:0}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:21px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:justify;justify-content:space-between;margin:8px 0}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ.QgBK4ECuqpeR2umRjYcP2{opacity:.4}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ label{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ label svg{fill:currentColor;height:20px;margin-right:4px;width:20px}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:justify;justify-content:space-between;padding:0;width:100%}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_ svg{display:inline-block;height:12px;width:12px}.isInButtons2020 ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_{padding:0 12px}.isInButtons2020 ._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:unset;line-height:16px;text-transform:unset}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F{--textColor:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColor);--textColorHover:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColorShaded80);font-size:10px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:.5px;line-height:12px;text-transform:uppercase;color:var(--textColor);fill:var(--textColor);opacity:1}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F._2UlgIO1LIFVpT30ItAtPfb{--textColor:var(--newRedditTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColor);--textColorHover:var(--newRedditTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColorShaded80)}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:active,._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:hover{color:var(--textColorHover);fill:var(--textColorHover)}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:disabled,._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F[data-disabled],._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F[disabled]{opacity:.5;cursor:not-allowed} StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy. But a Marian legion (in cohorts) could break itself up into sizable chunks to outmanoeuvre the phalanx. professional rather than militia, but given their weapons, they couldn't tended to fall apart if they tried. The cavalry was the manuever element. The legions were usually divided in to five of these. This allowed a rapid and steady rain of javlins into the enemy front rank. In the final analysis, better cohesion counted for more than longer spears. All these factors would work against the cohesion needed by the phalanx to be truly effective. The phalanx (Ancient Greek: φάλαγξ; plural phalanxes or phalanges, φάλαγγες, phalanges) was a rectangular mass military formation, usually composed entirely of heavy infantry armed with spears, pikes, sarissas, or similar pole weapons.The term is particularly used to describe the use of this formation in Ancient Greek warfare, although the ancient Greek writers used it to also describe any massed … weapons' reach, with the hoplites encumbered with each others' weapons. 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